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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Female SHADO officers (Read 9172 times)
Matt
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Everyone at SHADO drinks
coffee!

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Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #15 - Jan 8th, 2017 at 5:20pm
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It's amazing how things change in 40 years. Calling any woman a "girl" just wouldn't fly today. Smiley

Hope you all are well!
  

What do you mean, we're out of coffee!
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Write Rat
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Straker and his coffee.
Light and double sweet.

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Location: United States
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #14 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 9:22am
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In my assessment of Lake, I find it hard to accept that she would ignore or not pick up on any implied insult. My read of that scene was that the sub was his baby, and she was rocking it too hard. She gave a impish grin when she turned the reins back over to him.

Straker came over as sexist when he addressed Ellis as a very attractive girl. He didn't use the term woman. I've never seen him as genuinely sexist. Culture involving the genders changes very slowly. Certainly Ellis smiled to me in a shy manner. Later, she obviously had fun pulling Straker's leg in Close Up. He tells her to come and see him when she gets to Earth. In Responsiblity seat, Alec is startled when Straker say Jo was Josephine. 'itwas a GIRL!'  And what's his inquiry? Attractive? Heh.
Yeah considering Straker's big blue eyes took Frasier in from toes to bosom to coiffure, yeah he found her attractive.
Shado was run on military lines, u.s. and uk, so whatever was sop in the 70's 80's regarding titles would be it.
I find actresses using actor to refer to themselves as being unusual.
Lake was a sharp woman. She didn't have problems cooling Alec's jets chuckle. I did find her brief thing with Collins odd.
  
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SnowLeopard
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Where do they come from?
What do they want?

Posts: 138
Location: Berkshire UK
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #13 - Dec 3rd, 2016 at 7:15am
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And I thought we had it a bit rough here at times..

Think I found my problem - see the specific thread. Thanks, Moo.
  
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Moo
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UFO Rocks!

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Location: Hazel Green, AL
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #12 - Nov 30th, 2016 at 3:44pm
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We had severe weather with storms, tornadoes and flash flooding here in Huntsville, AL last night. We went from drought and wildfire warnings to flash flooding in about 12 hours. As they say here, if you don't like the weather, stick around for an hour or two.

Posting to the forum can be a bit frustrating. Cutting and pasting to the Yabb format and fixing the spacing and punctuation. The help tab will take you there.

Posting to the library is as easy as submitting an email using the link on the main page. The Librarian was very patient and helpful with my entries. It took a few tries to get things right, but it was a useful learning experience for me. Not a tech guy...

I look forward to seeing your stories. All the best.
Moo
  
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SnowLeopard
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Where do they come from?
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Location: Berkshire UK
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #11 - Nov 30th, 2016 at 10:41am
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Thanks for that, Moo!

It's pretty chilly here in sunny England.. it was 23F when I got up and it's still only 29F. Time here is 10:30 GMT. Should be a bit warmer where you are!

OT I'm trying to get a story submitted, but I'm having problems.. will go to 'fanfic related', probably. /OT

  
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Moo
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UFO Rocks!

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Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #10 - Nov 30th, 2016 at 1:51am
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Hi Snow Leopard,

I've asked my contacts that include Army, Navy and Air Force. All say sir and ma'am are both correct per gender in US operations. Again, rank is always appropriate, but the other terms are largely up to the preferences of the officer. Nothing unusual.

Perhaps SHADO was indeed setting a standard or equally possible, the script when written assumed the command officer would be a male. Anyhooo, hope all is well in your corner of the world.

Moo
  
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SnowLeopard
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Where do they come from?
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Location: Berkshire UK
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #9 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 9:29pm
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Hi Moo, thanks for saying hi!

I follow what you are saying about US treatment of rank.

I like the Librarian's suggestion that this 'sir' thing might be SHADO culture. After all, they are breaking new ground!
  
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Moo
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UFO Rocks!

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Location: Hazel Green, AL
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #8 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 7:10pm
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Hi Snow Leopard. Welcome to the forum and guild.

In regard to your response and the questions, here in the U.S. it is always appropriate to use the rank. As to sir or ma'am I'm not sure but many of my contacts are current and recent military service personnel. I'll put the question to them and see if there is a protocol that applies. Should know if a few days...

Again, welcome to the group!

Moo
  
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SnowLeopard
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Where do they come from?
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Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #7 - Nov 28th, 2016 at 7:01am
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Hi all - first post on this forum (be gentle please!!)

A thought on this. I think it's in one of David Brin's books, which features a starship crewed by humans and dolphins, where he uses the form 'sir' to address a male officer and 'ser' for a female. Not sure if you'd actually hear the difference, unless it was pronounced 'sair', of course. He also speaks of 'mels' and 'fems', and of the humans as 'men' and the dolphins as 'fen'.

Oh, and the starship is called 'Streaker'...
  
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Matt
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Everyone at SHADO drinks
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Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #6 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 4:23pm
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No, he didn't really look all that pleased. And Ginny seemed just a tad bit concerned when they weren't able to arrest the dive right away. A fathom is six feet, so they were quite deep. That trench was one nautical mile down. (6000 feet)

Skydiver's test depth was 3750 feet or 625 fathoms. By the time they had arrested the dive they were at 825 fathoms or 4950 feet. Yikes! I'd be worried too! Boy, they really built that thing! Thank God, and General Dynamics! Grin
  

What do you mean, we're out of coffee!
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Librarian
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I may be blonde but...

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Location: Washington (not DC)
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #5 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 4:08pm
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Paris was always an old-fashioned boy  Grin

I've generally considered the captain's use of "sir" as a bit of a slur. He wasn't happy camper, that one.
  

If you only have one solution to a problem - you're not trying.
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Matt
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Everyone at SHADO drinks
coffee!

Posts: 2385
Location: Off the deep end!
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #4 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 3:55pm
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I've seen it both ways, onscreen and in books. On ST Voyager, Tom Paris always calls Janeway ma'am. But I think Lt. Savvick was refered to as sir during the Kobyashi Maru simulation. In all of my work, I use ma'am if the officer happens to be a woman.

Quote:
There's a possibility that the captain and the colonel have a past, which would also reflect on the way he reacts to her in charge.  (Sorry, Matt.  It's a plot idea, though.)   Cool


Maybe the captain p*ssed her off once, and she chewed him out.  Grin Either way, they did seem to be somewhat adversarial, in that scene. Wink
  

What do you mean, we're out of coffee!
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Neesierie
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Straker, somehow it's
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Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #3 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 3:01pm
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As always with UFO, you can play the scene any way you want, since nothing was ever spoken, only implied.  Actually, with the way I read the scene, the captain's pissed not only because he's not in charge, but because Straker sent a female to run things.  It's a double insult, if you see what I mean.  But you could read the scene several other ways, too.  There's a possibility that the captain and the colonel have a past, which would also reflect on the way he reacts to her in charge.  (Sorry, Matt.  It's a plot idea, though.)  Cool
  

The sky is not the limit; nor are the stars.
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Librarian
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I may be blonde but...

Posts: 650
Location: Washington (not DC)
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #2 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 2:54pm
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Well, my experience from 10 years ago as a civilian: I had been promoted in my job into a position supervising the guy who trained me. (I was on a management track and he wasn't.) He was an ex-Marine. One of his things was to call me "ma'am" with as much venom as he could. I finally told him to stop calling me that. His response was "You want me to call you SIR?"
To which I responded (the Trekkie in me came out) "YES"
He walked away grumbling and started using my name.  Roll Eyes

But what I'm wondering is what the writer was thinking when he had the captain refer to her as "sir". Was he expressing his acknowledgement that she was an officer, or was he implying something else?

Of course we never will know. But we can ask. Grin
  

If you only have one solution to a problem - you're not trying.
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Neesierie
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Straker, somehow it's
always about you.

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Location: Fulton, MO
Re: Female SHADO officers
Reply #1 - Aug 19th, 2011 at 2:44pm
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I've run across that too, Deb.  As a writer, I want to get the terminology right (except when I deliberately want it off), but that particular title gets it from both sides.  Some people find it offensive to be called "sir" when they're female.  Others find it offensive to be called "ma'am" when they're an officer.  Who knows which is the more acceptable?

For my own stories, I usually call them whichever title works for the character doing the talking.  Such as, a captain who's been supplanted by Col. Lake on an important mission would probably call her "sir", since he's irritated with her for taking over his job.  (At least, that's how I play that scene in Destruction.)  He sees her as an officer first and a female second.  But another crewman (one who finds her physically attractive perhaps) would call her "ma'am", since he would see her as female first and officer second.  It works for me, but good luck on getting a definite say one way or the other from official channels.  Wink
  

The sky is not the limit; nor are the stars.
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