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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses (Read 17363 times)
Lightcudder
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #45 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:02am
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She was pretty forward and flashy during the wedding, tipsy as well. Doesn't spell convent for me. She decorates the house pretty wildly, that's not the stuff a sedate country wife would hang on the walls
.

Oh that is SO convent....
we were not allowed tp wear patent shoes ( reflected your underwear) If a man asked you t o kiss him you had to raise a hand and say 'Desist, I am a handmaid of God.  Need I say more.?
Convent educated from 5 - 21... Primary, 5-11, Secondary 11-16, then sixth form college adn fiinally Teacher Training college.. all single sex as well! Wow... when we discovered boys... you can imagine!! so Convent to me
spells innocence but also wild behaviour.. getting drunk, etc. very very naive
Teacher training college had loads of Irish girls.. my word.. they really let their  hair down once they were away from home. 

Decorating.. she would want to do the things she had never been allowed to do at home... so rather extreme colour schemes etc including weird pictures

and if Mary was like that, then she wouldn't have the 'street-wise' understanding of how to deal with a husband  so hence the appointment with the insurance guy etc... trying to be 'helpful' and failing miserably!

  

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Normandie
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #46 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:04am
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Lightcudder wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 7:31am:
One of the great things about Babylon 5 was that there was a detailed plan of the whole story from start to finish, and so there are no uncomfortable 'what the hell was that all about?' moments.

I'm waiting for guests to come down for (their 8.30am! Angry) breakfast so this will be brief:

I'm re-watching all the B5 series at the moment (it gets me through the ironing!) and am in awe of JMS. His passion for the story and the characters oozes from the screen. I don't think the Andersons had that sort of passion and therefore we didn't get that sort of series. Lots of things that were "good ideas at the time" but never saw any development after the relevant episode. But I don't think that was untypical of most series at the time - hero declaring undying love for (usually dying) character one week but having apparently moved on with no lasting effects by the next episode as an example.

Re smoking in France, Guina: in this part of Normandy most (though not all) of the bars and restaurants are effectively enforcing the no smoking ban, even in the countryside.

However, France is many countries and it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that Brittany or regions further south are ignoring the law. Signing up to and then ignoring laws is what France does so well. Cool

Edited to add: and yes, bars (and boulangeries, epiceries, etc) are closing here in droves too, especially in the countryside. But while the smoking ban has something to do with the drop in bar profits, closures are also due to the sort of societal changes that has fewer people shopping locally or going out to drink vs opening a bottle at home - drink driving limits are lower in France than in England, for eg. Things are rarely black and white.
  
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Lightcudder
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #47 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:14am
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I don't think the Andersons had that sort of passion and therefore we didn't get that sort of series. Lots of things that were "good ideas at the time" but never saw any development after the relevant episode.


Exactly Normandie, although the 'Anderson' fans will have my guts for garters!
Gerry simply didn't think things through well enough. The fact that so many of his series only lasted a season or 32 eposodes, is enough proof I think. ans Space 1999 only went into a second season with huge refits and a new american director.

If thought and care had gone into UFO it would  have gone on to a second season. Forexample, why was there no 'bible' for writers/ ..so we have Straker not drinking / drinking etc. there is no coherent time line, no developement of ideas... aliens as noncorporeal entities.. what happened to  THAT idea? (cat with ten lives)
It was almost as if SHADO was merely a front for a series of disconnected random stories that weere linked by having the same characters .Oh there were some really really good episodes, but also some real duff ones!

It makes you wonder what would have happened if someone else had come up with the idea of UFo and had made it.. someone with more talent (ooops... sorry Gerry)
  

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Guina
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #48 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:27am
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Hi Normandie,

you should make the mattresses harder  Smiley

Quote:
I'm re-watching all the B5 series at the moment (it gets me through the ironing!) and am in awe of JMS. His passion for the story and the characters oozes from the screen. I don't think the Andersons had that sort of passion and therefore we didn't get that sort of series. Lots of things that were "good ideas at the time" but never saw any development after the relevant episode.


Curiously that one never made it high up on my radar, I do not like it at all and can't find any character I could be sympathetic with, nor any face taking my fancy or plot intriguing me a lot. Watched it through 3 seasons and then gave up on it. Too slick, too constructed for my taste.

There are movies which do that to me as well (lately it was Avatar, left me totally cold).

Quote:
in this part of Normandy most (though not all) of the bars and restaurants are effectively enforcing the no smoking ban, even in the countryside.


Possibly due the many tourists there? Dunno. The Southerners are so anti-Paris that they'd flout their disagreement just because  :Smiley  Grin

That said, the French without Gauloises hanging from the lips, a baguette under the arm and a bottle of red in the other hand is somehow a sorry France.  Shocked
  
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Normandie
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #49 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:29am
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Lightcudder wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:14am:
The fact that so many of his series only lasted a season or 32 eposodes, is enough proof I think.

I don't know how much of that was due to the perpetual quest of tv companies for the new and the fresh. I've never studied tv series of that era but the shows that seemed to get renewed were those with "glamorous" (for the time!) mainland Europe locations. The Protectors - also the Andersons - got more episodes / series for eg, though I think those were only 30 minute episodes. But then, iirc - and I probably don't! - the Persuaders (not the Andersons) didn't.

I'd have to think about it more and do some research into other series of the era but I think the Andersons were somewhat groundbreaking with UFO (it being a bit dark and morally ambiguous occasionally) and while they didn't do much in the way of story arcs, did many series of that time?

  
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #50 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:39am
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I need to get up. 9.36 am. still in bed.. bliss.
UFO.. dark, morally ambiguous , definitley. which is probably its saving grace.

(oh... and having  Ed Bishop as Straker probably had something to do with it!!) Smiley

Drool.

  

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Guina
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #51 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:41am
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Hi Louise,

Quote:
If thought and care had gone into UFO it would have gone on to a second season. Forexample, why was there no 'bible' for writers/ ..so we have Straker not drinking / drinking etc.


If the Andersons had planned UFO we'd have no Straker as he is today. Quite simply.

We'd have some bureacratic hiny, much like Henderson later turned out to be, who throws shitfits behind a desk and lets the Bond-type (Alec) and the Tarzan-type (Foster) together with the hot babes (Threesome of the Moonbase) do all the action. He'd have been in possibly 5-6 of the episodes.

As it turned out to be they had no plan, which left them wide open to use the talent of Bishop as much as possible.

BTW - Spock also came to existence through such "non-planning", if you watch the first season you see quite some changes in the character. He even smiled quite often in the beginning, and joked.

Quote:
It was almost as if SHADO was merely a front for a series of disconnected random stories that weere linked by having the same characters .Oh there were some really really good episodes, but also some real duff ones!


That's hindsight. I remember when I watched as a kid, and my dad watched alongside me, including some of his friends, that we all were thoroughly chilled by UFO. It was very effective.

Quote:
It makes you wonder what would have happened if someone else had come up with the idea of UFo and had made it.. someone with more talent (ooops... sorry Gerry)


The main problem was that it was in competition with a couple of other similar formats and too daring and advanced for the US market. Otherwise it might have gotten its second season.

BTW - another very shortlived but incredibly good SF-series is Max Headroom with Matt Frewer. Also British, also way ahead of time and absolutely groundbreaking and also cut very short:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_Headroom_%28TV_series%29

Thankfully just released completely on DVD and I'll be getting it!  Grin

  
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Normandie
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #52 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:50am
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Alba wrote on Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:27am:
you should make the mattresses harder Smiley

It's a thought! I find vacuuming outside the door usually works quite well too... especially if DH is strimming the grass outside at the same time. Grin

Anyway, they're now up and stuffing themselves with croissants, pain au chocolate, freshly squeezed orange juice, my own home-made granola and brioche, fresh fruit salad, honey, marmelade, jams...

...and I loved Max Headroom! Though DH hated it with a passion. However, I control the remote in this house.
  
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #53 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:56am
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Normandie... get breakfast ready ......I'm on my way!!!!
  

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Guina
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #54 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 8:57am
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Hi Normandie,

Quote:
Anyway, they're now up and stuffing themselves with croissants, pain au chocolate, freshly squeezed orange juice, my own home-made granola and brioche, fresh fruit salad, honey, marmelade, jams...


Oh gosh! Stop it already, will ya?! Angry Shocked :Smiley

The two things you can't get outside of France are real French baguettes and real French croissants de beurre... *snif* What they sell abroad in their stead is a travesty!

I soooooooooooooo miss them! Cry

Well, I'll get the DVDs, that series was absolutely fantastic, got me hooked with the pilot and that was a time when it was hard glueing me to the TV set.
  
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #55 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 9:43am
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Lightcudder;

Quote:
It was almost as if SHADO was merely a front for a series of disconnected random stories that weere linked by having the same characters .Oh there were some really really good episodes, but also some real duff ones!


Guina;

Quote:
That's hindsight. I remember when I watched as a kid, and my dad watched alongside me, including some of his friends, that we all were thoroughly chilled by UFO. It was very effective.


Yes, I agree, but everything we say/write/think about UFO is with hindsight isn't it!
I watched the episodes and thought they were phenominal. And if I had to do a detailed analysis of an episode then, straight after watching it, i would have praised it to the hilt. but, looking back, we are honest enough to see the flaws, the mistakes, the continuity errors.
If we looked at the programme through rose tinted glasses we would be fooling ourselves.
And that is the attraction of this forum and UFO itself. We CAN admit the faults, and appreciate that everyone ses things differently. ( I HATE Q of P!) but I am open to persuasion! (maybe...possibly...errrrrr)
Hindsight is 20-20 vision as they say, but in this case looking at other people's perspectives will give us a fresh view.. I hope.. although I still don't think I will ever like/understand/accept Mary ... or Craig Collins..(Those lips...shudder!)
Anyway.. I need to get my outfit sorted for the Saturday night party at the Convention!! Can't think of any UFO character to dress up as (apart from a party-goer in Ordeal... eugh) so I will have to rely on my back-up plan.!
« Last Edit: Sep 11th, 2010 at 11:26am by Lightcudder »  

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Guina
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #56 - Sep 11th, 2010 at 12:14pm
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Hi Louise,

Quote:
Yes, I agree, but everything we say/write/think about UFO is with hindsight isn't it!


I wouldn't say everything. I already once explained that I do not think the Andersons were haphazard about the series. Some "small" details, such as continuity may have been compromised, but from what we have today it is very clear that they gave pretty concise orders as to the what, the where to and the how there.

What I mean is, that I think the stories per se were not as important as describing and building a dystopian world in which aliens preyed on humans in the vilest of all ways, where the "rescuers" had to haggle for budgets to save the planet, where every so often people lost instead of won the ensuing battle - be it personal or general.

I mean, how many ST:TOS episodes are there, where Captain Kirk loses his son (that needed a new planet, it needed be against the living Mr. Spock, it needed the son's own heroic decision and it needed the survival of Spock).

All we get here in UFO is the stale aftertaste of what might possibly have been. There are truly universes between the one and the other! And I'll take UFO over ST any given time!

What UFO actually reminds me most of lately are V, Brazil and Max Headroom (which is why I remembered about that one).

It does take planning - of a totally different sort - to arrive THERE.

Quote:
but, looking back, we are honest enough to see the flaws, the mistakes, the continuity errors.


My stance is different. Quite literally - I do not care about those. I've said that already in the discussion about Psychobombs. I fill the plot holes and continuity errors with what is the most logical (to me) explanation and take as canon only what I see onscreen (no scripts, no interviews, no fan-written stuff). That makes it easy to live with what exists.

I truly much prefer the wonderful alternate reality the Andersons created, to the precision of Babylon 5, if you will. To me, one is alive and vibrant, the other a mere construction.

Quote:
although I still don't think I will ever like/understand/accept Mary ... or Craig Collins..(Those lips...shudder!)


The fun part is - you don't have to! I also dislike Mary, but QoP is a fav of mine instead. I see the lack of that character and I interpret it the most logical (for me) way and that is that she is a very daft bimbo and that Straker is equally daft for having married her thinking that would work out. But hey - people make such mistakes and there are such vapid bimbos and there are eminently intelligent men who happen to marry them. Maybe he liked the boobs?! Smiley

What is plan B?

  
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #57 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 5:42am
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Interesting take K-k. It struck me funny as well that Ed wouldn't tell his best friend. The only thing that made sense to me was even his close friends were held a a distance. In my storylines he never told Alec. I do agree that all was not well with Mary and her new husband and there was still attraction between Mary and Ed beyond the fact that they had a child together. I could certainly see Rutland as an abusive husband. I would not be at all surprised to learn that he was glad that the link between Mary and Ed was severed. The episode was meant to be a tragedy and it certainly was that on all levels. Wink

Ginny? Water gun? Only if she was trying to wake you up. Grin
  

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Guina
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #58 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 5:55am
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Hi K-k,

now why doesn't it astonish me that Max is a fav of yours as well? I just loved him. And I yesterday evening ordered that DVD set - must have (drooling here). Smiley I bought my first computer because of Max - I wanted a Max in my computer ever so badly and played around for ages with the most diverse rendering softwares of the time! Smiley

As to the US market, the rates showed the fact (UFO and 2-3 like programs did eminently well in continental Europe as opposed to that). It's a repetitive thing anyway, most whatever comes out of Europe is too gritty and too dark, usually gets re-shot and adapted for US-taste, or discarded. UFO's no exception, there's a lot of that out there. Just compare the European and the US version of "Nightwatch", and that's even the same director and screenwriter for you. The US version is much tamed down and packs but half the punch of the original.

Whether the US public indeed was/is not ready for this stuff? That would need trying out, wouldn't it? I do really sometimes wonder what came first - egg or hen? Is it the cold feet of the producers or the public itself?

One pointer though is e.g. HLOTS, which is the darkest and grittiest any US TV production ever did, especially the first 4 seasons. It was its small dedicated fan-base which lobbied year after year for continuance, but the show itself never really hit off on the main US market, even tho it was showered with prizes.

All that's a really hot topic among those writing for the screen, small or big. Cheesy

Quote:
My take on QoP: the basis for my theory that Mary became Rutland's trophy wife, that he didn't care for Straker's son, that Mary was, on some levels, afraid of him. Her abrupt assurance that she and John were allright was just odd. When Rutland steps out while John is getting the ship model, he looms, he is not showing care for his wife, but disdain for his wife's ex ...


I nowhere got the impression that Mary was afraid of Rutland. What I sensed there instead was jealousy and possessiveness on his part, and the wish to cut short every contact of the former husband with son and wife. And in consequence what I get from Mary is the wish to have Ed off the premises pronto, so as to not engender even more of that.

I don't find all that very odd either, seen it many times in many badly divorced families.

Quote:
Straker didn't come apart at the seams? Straker soldiers on and doesn't even yell at Alec, ... As for the rest of it, Alec should have known. There is no way Straker who has dashed off to the hospital .... uhm why? Alec doesn't know? Alec is his second in command and he doesn't know?


Again, I've seen pretty much exactly this in real life, not just once either - so it does not puzzle me the way it seems to strike you.

I even know from my own experience that you indeed can coldly function for days, months onwards, not a tear shed, not one yell, no "losing it" and appear perfectly alright to everyone around you. It took me 10 years before *I* could cry over what had happened, before I even dared touch that specific time in my own history and - tell you what - I haven't yet talked about it with anyone! And as said, I've seen that with others too. It's entirely dependant on personality.

So, no problem here in seeing how that can come about, I find this highly credible.

Why should Alec know, especially if Straker expressly keeps it from him? He can't do more than offer his ears, and that he did and was rebuked, emphatically. Again I fail to see the problem, as I fail to see what else Alec could have done. I don't remember Straker dashing out of HQ either - must watch this again today...  Undecided

  
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Re: A Question Of Priorities - Detailed Analyses
Reply #59 - Sep 12th, 2010 at 6:58am
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K-K wrote

Quote:
You guys are gonna ban me from the board, aren't you? Sorry. Feverish. Sick. Can't breath. and can't find some critical directions on the homework due by noon tomorrow ... Somebody just shoot me. (Col. Lake sneaks up behind the K-k and shoots her in the  head with a water gun)


Yep.


Banned. Grin


Sniggering again.

I like reading all the diferent takes on Mary.. one of my personal problems with the character is ( and i only realised this last night!) I HATE her name.  Or is that becaues I don't like her really?
I do think she was afraid of Rutland.. or at least well under his thumb. Perhaps that was her problem.. she needed/wanted a forceful husband..someone who was a bully, ( a father figure?.. problems as a child at home with her own father?) and Straker was most definitely not that.  Or perhaps she just had a penchant for men in  uniform! Grin

Guina...Plan B.  Fancy Dress? .I tell you privately... don't want anyone copying me!!

  Smiley
  

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