SHADO
Welcome, Guest. Please Login or Register

News:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 Send Topic
Normal Topic Virginia Lake (Read 2668 times)
Neesierie
Ex Member


Virginia Lake
Jul 22nd, 2010 at 2:07am
Print Post  
So.  Shall we tackle the character of Ginny?  :Smiley

I loved it that there was a woman in the Command team!  Wink And she was brilliant and interesting too.  But the series really screwed her over by making her seem as promiscuous as Paul!  (Well, okay.  Maybe not quite that bad.)  But in a highly intelligent woman, it was somehow worse.  And left a bad taste in my mouth.  Tongue

I've portrayed her many different ways in my stories.  But somehow in all of them, she is secretly in love with her boss.  (Well, she's an intelligent woman.  How could she fail to love him?)  :Smiley

But so far at least I haven't had the two of them end up together.  (Although in 'Devil' they came close!)  I don't know if I ever will.  Mostly because she just strikes me as too cold for him.  Matt portrays her as a warmer person than the series does, which makes it marginally acceptable to read about her with Straker in his stories.  But if the series was headed for them to be together, I'm glad it ended when it did.  That would have seriously stunk!  Tongue Tongue Tongue

What are your thoughts?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matt
Colonel
*****
Offline


Everyone at SHADO drinks
coffee!

Posts: 2391
Location: Coventry, RI
Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #1 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 4:36am
Print Post  
Virginia Lake:

It’s no secret that Virginia is my favorite character in the series. What makes this so odd is that she was in only nine of the twenty six episodes.

In the series she was portrayed as a brilliant woman, but with a somewhat cold demeanor at least on the surface. But there were also subtle hints that, at her core, she was much warmer than was being portrayed.

In the episode “The Cat with Ten Lives” she showed great concern for Jim Regen’s well being after his pregnant wife was abducted. When Straker ordered him back to duty she was quite angry with his decision. To me the depth of anger here was in response to her empathy for Regen.

A bit of Ginny’s warmth also shows in the beginning of “The Man who Came Back” when she is talking with Craig on the radio. I’ll come back to this episode later.

In “Psychobombs” while Straker is being tended to by Jackson we she her hovering over him. She cracks a smile when Jackson tells Ed that he will live. She obviously has a sense of humor. To me that scene was the first indication that she was attracted to Ed.

In “Timelash” when Virginia is recovering from the blow to the back of the neck she shows great concern for Ed, saying to Paul, “He couldn’t have done it. Ed’s not a killer.” Later during the flashback the banter between her and Ed, showed both warmth and humor. When Tuner was taunting them and Ed started aiming and shooting his rifle randomly, she ran up next to him. Yes she was afraid, but at the same time she was supporting him. The first hint that Ed is also attracted to her was when he touches her hair while she is unconscious on the roof.

Ginny starts to show more warmth in “Mindbender”. The coffee scene was classic romantic interplay between Ginny and Ed. Ginny was also pleasant to Beaver James as she greeted him warmly on the way to Ed’s office.

“The Long Sleep” opens with Ed walking into the control room. Ginny is waiting on the phone when Ed greets her, and she responds very pleasantly. By this time the writers were getting a handle on her personality. When Catherine died later in the episode, Ginny was in tears at the hospital when Paul arrived. Later when Ed came down from the room he looks at her briefly then looks down in anguish. Virginia watches him walk away alone and when the camera cuts back to her you can see that she has made a decision and she runs after Ed, determined that he isn’t going to face this alone. In my story “Soul Mates” this is the point where their relationship becomes intimate.

I picture Ginny as a very complex person, almost as complex as Ed. In my back story her father was killed during World War Two, six months before she was born. She was married briefly while she worked at Westbrook Electronics, and caught her husband in an affair. I see Ginny as someone who chooses her friends very carefully but is also fiercely loyal to those she becomes close to. I picture her treating others with reserved kindness when she doesn’t know them well. Ginny is a selfless person who will think nothing of risking her life to save others. Her relationship with Ed is extremely romantic and sensual in the “Soul Mates Saga”. They share a very deep love for each other. Ginny plays piano and as a taste for classical music. She finds out later in life that she has artistic talent as well.

“The Man who Came Back” did more damage to her character than all the other episodes combined. Ginny was portrayed as being promiscuous, jumping from an intimate relationship with Craig Collins to one with Paul Foster with in a six week period. I wouldn’t have had a problem with her and Collins as Craig is portrayed as having a very keen mind. He was also a close friend of Ed’s, and we know that he is also selective of his friends. The only reason I don’t think that the relationship had made it to that point was the statement Ginny made to Craig, “We weren’t exactly Romeo and Juliet.” As far as Foster is concerned, she wouldn’t have given him the right time of day, much less anything else. The director even tried to make her look younger in that episode. (Yuck) My story “Silver Star” deals with this mess that the writer created.

Ginny was portrayed very favorably in “By Invitation Only” written by Catherine Stewart. It was a great story about how Ginny came into SHADO. I liked it so much that I base some of my work on it. Denise also showed her in a favorable light both “Kid Stuff” and “Writer’s Block”. Louise has her with Alec in “The Rachel Chronicles” also in a very good light. Dragon has her with Keith in both “Skulls” and “Weapons Test”, I never thought of that pairing.

This is quite long because I feel the same way about Virginia that Denise feels about Ed.

 
  

What do you mean, we're out of coffee!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Lightcudder
Colonel
*****
Offline


Trust no one.

Posts: 1311
Location: Here. When you least expect it
Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #2 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 7:31am
Print Post  
Wow. What more can I say.. especially at 7.55 am.

Colonel Lake.... brought in as a substitute for Alec..
That is where it went wrong really.

Alec was meant to be the 'support' for Straker.. the warm man to Straker's cold analytical (see, I knew I'd end up typing that word at some stage..and I'm still half-asleep!) mind. There is a line in Computer Affair that was deleted in the final edit where Straker, after Alec has handed his resignation in, says 'I need you.'

Pity they didn't keep that, it would have developed the relationship much further.
As it was, Alec was never really given any depth and when he left and they brought Col Lake in, she was simply a woman, (with big hair!)

I couldn't actually imagine Straker seeing anything in her, apart from the fact that she was an excellent scientist. She didn't provide the 'warmth' that Alec did, and I always saw her as very ambitious, a high-flyer, who would excell at her job. She was, in my opinion, too similar to Straker for any relationship to work.  And I couldn't see him having a relationship with a woman who had 'done the rounds' as it were, with Alec,Craig and Paul.. all Straker's friends! 

Ed does not seem to me the sort of guy who would want to look at his wife and wonder about her sleeping with Alec etc.

If we assume that Lake was a part of the organisation from  the beginning and that Alec was simply 'out of the country/in Moonbase/elsewhere for the last nine episodes.. which is quite possible, then Virginia fits into the storyline better. not as Alec's replacement, but as another member of Shado.. perhaps she's been elsewhere all this time.. research. science dept?

However, she's found time to have a pretty decent social life, and she and Paul are  the only members of Shado who have!  (It's hinted at with Alec, but nothing definite) I would actually see Virginia pairing up with Paul .. after all , he is the young handsome one, with time to spare for a relationship, and he is also ambitious.
Straker is probably too focussed on work and duty.
I paired Ed with Rachel because she was younger and also a relative 'new-comer' to the London base, so she wouldn't have  had the opportunity to 'play the field' as it were. No 'background' with any of his friends.. in fact I try to make it clear that she is not Alec's type.She is also not in the chain of command ( at first) so there is no conflict of interests.
AS for Denise and Ed.... she's efficient, loyal, caring, sexy, and again, not an important part of the command team.

I could see serious difficulties if Straker actually had a relationship with Colonel Lake.. Actually, in  military organisations, isn't it forbidden for different ranks to have relationships? Not sure!
Anyway. That's me done for now. Cheesy

Phew. Off to make my morning coffee.. two sugars and full-fat milk... ( yes I know it's bad for you  but it is SO good!) Grin
Looking forward to responses!
  

I need some air.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
dragon
Ex Member


Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #3 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 3:35pm
Print Post  
Wow, Virginia Lake. I like the actress and I think UFO is where I discovered her. I liked that she was a big fish, that she was the brains behind the technology for tracking the aliens. Oddly, I never thought of her as cold, more as executive/scientist. Many of the professional women I knew through my mom did come across as emotionally cool in the workplace. Outside work, at home and when not saddled with entertaining duties, they were quite warm and wonderful people.

Again, I have to look at the time frame outside the show. The late sixties is the sexual revolution. Multiple liasons did not make one a bad person, just sexually active. This is the time of Playboy, Hustler, and Penthouse; of the hippie movement in the US. It's a time when women were being allowed to acknowledge that their sex drives are just as strong and urgent as that of the male.

Ginny going from Craig to Paul: can you say rebound? I never saw that as a lasting relationship, but more as having lost Craig, Ginny turned to the only other person who might understand. (Heavens, I'm painting Paul as an understanding human being) I think the writers weren't treating Virginia Lake as any more of a three dimensional being than they did anyone else. They picked topical actions that made her a "modern" woman", they weren't really developing her character, just picking up on what they thought women wanted to see in a "liberated" woman.

Everyone cares about Straker. SHADO is still in its formation period, it's barely online and Straker is the ramrod of the organization. In many ways, Straker is a messiah and the Colonels are his disciples ... (Oh, heavens, does that make Ginny the Magdalene?) So, Ginny cares about her boss. Would she ever cross the line of command to see him as a man and want him that way? Good question. Ginny is a civilian thrust into a military world, mostly male dominated in the time of writing. (The big prohibition is enlisted and officers. Too much abuse of position of power from one side to the other; therefore officers are forbidden to have relationships with enlisted personnel. Relations between officers are at the discretion of the officers. Too wide separation in rank is frowned on as some people have rankly abused their positions to coerce lower rankers. Not a problem between Foster, Freeman, Lake and Straker.)

Did I see Lake and Straker as a romantic item: no. Not during the series. Had things gone farther, had the show developed and time progressed to where Straker knew someone else could step into his shoes successfully, then there might have been. Although on some levels Straker and Lake are too close together psychologically. Virginia has had to fight her way into the position she had in the civilian world and probably understands a lot of what Straker goes through.

Given the chain of command, SHADO really couldn't afford to pair the four primary command personnel with each other. They really had to find outsiders.

Given fandom, the pairings are ... whatever we desire. There's a way to justify anything, including evil influences.

I appreciated seeing a woman in a position of command and power who wasn't super human, who was fallible. As noted above, I didn't see her as cold, but as professional, something a woman has needed to be successful at the time of filming and well into the 1980's.

Of course, I haven't seen any of the shows in a decade of more, which means I'm relying on my very very sieve-like memory. In the US, professional women are still a lot more like Virginia Lake when on duty. Off duty, that's a whole different scene.

Replacement for Alec ... sometimes writers just don't realize that there has to be some kind of continuity, explanations for missing people. Mind you, I think the show wasn't shown in order in the US so I never caught on to people shifting places ... LOL.

My Ed pairings: dubious at best. Kelsy is outside of SHADO completely. Cheri was a ... biological imperative, although I haven't explained that yet. Virginia: Well, Ford is not exactly a normal pairing at this point. I may have to make it work in another universe because the world of skulls and weapon test is not going to end well. The other problem is, I don't necessarily go for romance in my stories.(Oh yeah, I've put Mary back in his life twice ... although I have yet to finish things on either of them) .... hmmm, although I could see a situation in which ...  Cheesy

laters
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Lightcudder
Colonel
*****
Offline


Trust no one.

Posts: 1311
Location: Here. When you least expect it
Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #4 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 8:05pm
Print Post  
I'm sorry ... I just have to post this thought..

Ginny as the Magdalene?  Look Mary Mag. wiped His feet with her hair.

Could Ginny do that.. with that hair

AS for sexual revolution... it hit here later than in the US I think..( I was 16 when this was shown here, and promiscuity/sevual freedom was still very much frowned on)



Dragon says;As noted above, I didn't see her as cold, but as professional, something a woman has needed to be successful at the time of filming and well into the 1980's.

Women had to do a hell of a lot more to keep up with men... A woman's place was barefoot, pregnant and behind the sink. I don't suppose Gerry Anderson was all that keyed up on Women's Lib.. being a successful man in a man's world.

I do think you are right about relationships between the four main characters.. they needed to find outsiders, simply because of the practicalities... a married couple in Chain of Command would never be allowed to travel together etc. adn what would happen if the relationship broke down?
  or...even worse, Ginny had an affair with Paul while married to Ed?
That could destroy the whole senior command.
Just a thought!
  

I need some air.
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
Matt
Colonel
*****
Offline


Everyone at SHADO drinks
coffee!

Posts: 2391
Location: Coventry, RI
Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #5 - Jul 22nd, 2010 at 10:58pm
Print Post  
I could see relationship issues causing a problem but, Ginny have an affair with Paul while married to Ed? Shocked Louise, think about this, would you leave The Man to be with Paul!?!???  Shocked Shocked Shocked :Smiley (I'm snickering here!)

Somehow I don't even see that as even a remote possiblity. Grin The other way around, well that's a different story! Wink Cheesy


I do agree totally with Denise on one point, I'm glad the writters didn't finish putting Ed and Ginny together in the series. They would have screwed it up royally! :Smiley At least this way we are all free to explore the different possible combinations. Smiley

When Alec hit on her in "Identified" she shut him down at the water works. "Shouldn't you be getting back to your little seat up front?" I liked Catherine's take on what happened after. Smiley I personally don't think they were involved romanticlly although I've considered that as a possible story line. I don't picture Ginny sleeping around, I think she has more class than that. Smiley

As far as the chain of command goes, the uniquness of the situation probably allowed them more latitude than the normal service would have permitted. In "Soul Mates" Ed had to get approval to promote Ginny to executive officer after they became intimately involved. I see them giving Straker quite a bit of latitude in that respect, I think it would be handled on a case by case basis. Wink

I did like reading all the different takes on her! Smiley
  

What do you mean, we're out of coffee!
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
dragon
Ex Member


Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #6 - Jul 23rd, 2010 at 2:03am
Print Post  
<<<'m sorry ... I just have to post this thought..

Ginny as the Magdalene?  Look Mary Mag. wiped His feet with her hair. >>>

There are some theories that see Mary Magdalene as more than the woman who cleaned Jesus' feet, that was more the idea I was seeing in that Ginny was a follower of Straker.

As to the sexual revolution: I was 19 I think when I saw UFO on one of the "underground" tv stations, it was FM instead of regular broadcast, unafilliated. 1971, i do believe, and the revolution was in full cry ... I don't think I had a single friend who was not a participant ... uhm, <blush> except for me ... too many people getting pregnant and I was not particularly interested in kids at the time. So, some of what I see is through an American lens rather than an English one. I see a very strong, professional woman. My mom was a news reporter, she hung with the guys, and a lot of her friends were in business. Somehow, the barefoot and pregnant thing never entered my febrile little mind. So, as indicated, I've never seen Ginny as less than relatively normal for a 1960's projection of a 1980's professional.

This may make me a little twisted by British standards... especially late 60's standards. (May I point out that New Orleans is more cosmopolitan about sexual matters than most of the rest of the US except maybe California? Large gay community even back then. And a melange of religious organizations, most of which I managed to miss: Roman Catholic, Baptist (of the Southern Hard Shelled sort), Methodist ... Not a lot of other options. So I'm a little open minded <g>)  Cheesy

And yeah, chain of command could get really messed up with two of them involved ...

d
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Guina
Ex Member


Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #7 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 2:50pm
Print Post  
Hi,

Virginia Lake certainly is one of my least liked characters of UFO and I agree with the take that as a second in command she's way too much like Straker, but even harsher than him.

My problem with that character is that she's way too much like a friend of mine for comfort: promiscuous, coldly logical, very business-oriented, extremely career-oriented and ambitious.

I've watched the results of such behaviour on people for a decade and some, and in the case of my friend it is even tamed with an else kindhearted soul. Still the business end of her life is pure shit and that's how I see Col. Lake as well. Can't help it.

Another part of my dislike is based on the actress herself, whose looks, acting and aura does absolutely nothing for me, it even occasionally gives rise to clearcut antipathy.

Virginia Lake - in my book - fits the role of occasional second in command with a lascivious taste in males, but not as a standing feature in that post. I agree that that should stay with Alec Freeman, who - I again agree with Louise - is the far better complement to Straker.

I can't help thinking of how absolutely brilliantly NCIS solved their "we need a female in an important position" problem. Coté de Pablo as Ziva David is a stroke of genius, compared. Not just that the actress is quite phantastic, she brings a real feel of military excellence and hardness to the role, paired with a down to earth and quite seriousminded warmth towards the team.

If there has to be a female second in command, that's the kind fitting the place, not such a nail polish and hairspray model.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Neesierie
Ex Member


Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #8 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 3:06pm
Print Post  
Ziva's the bomb!  I never could get those people who preferred Kate!  What was wrong with them?  I think Hollywood might have begun to get the message that everyone -- men and women -- prefer their heroines to be kickass and complex when Lara Croft hit so big.  But it takes a long time to change the Hollywood mindset.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dragon
Ex Member


Re: Virginia Lake
Reply #9 - Jul 29th, 2010 at 4:44pm
Print Post  
I like both Ziva and Kate (Kate's the one who died, right? Favorite line: I'm dead and I'm embarrassed.) A Ziva style character would have played well off Alec and annoyed Ed. LOL.

Aw, shoot ... someone hog tie my muse, please? and cage the fan fic fairies ... too many irons in the fire already. (Pity I can't use any of this in my applications ...  Cheesy)

laters

d

  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ LinkedIn reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo